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2008-09-05

Comentarii: 27, forum INCHIS

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Stalinz
2008-09-05 20:23:39

Si totusi

A trecut o luna si batrina Europa se pare revine dupa hipnoza americana. Mai bine acum decit niciodata

geek-a-contra
2008-09-05 20:34:50

prima chestie inteligenta....

... pe care o aud de la declansarea razboiului astuia....

VVV
2008-09-05 20:52:52

eschivare

daca vrei sa ingropi o problema formeaza o comisie de ancheta :D

Eufrosin
2008-09-05 20:59:05

Si daca se descopera ca Israel si SUA au instigat ?

Va duca oare la racirea relatiilor dintre cele doua state ?

Giuseppe Cocos
2008-09-05 21:04:42

Re: Si daca se descopera ca Israel si SUA au instigat ?

Ei si tu acuma ....se va musamaliza....


La 2008-09-05 20:59:05, Eufrosin a scris:

> Va duca oare la racirea relatiilor dintre cele doua state ?
>

ciucur
2008-09-05 21:36:47

iar cu pedepsire

aceste cuvinte "pedepsirea" Rusiei dau aura unei superioritati a sua si occidentului,iar presa foloseste aceste cuvinte ca sa ne induca noua faptul ca sua si occidentul sunt dumnezeu si ei impun sanctiuni dar nu ne spune nimeni in ce constau aceste sanctiuni,de ce e simplu fiindca ele nu exista

berti
2008-09-05 21:52:40

Re: Si daca se descopera ca Israel si SUA au instigat ?

nu se descopera nimic , ca tot EI fac ancheta si o musamalizeaza intre ei .
" ancheta " asta e doar praf in ochii opiniei publice , a prostimii , nimic mai mult ...

La 2008-09-05 20:59:05, Eufrosin a scris:
> Va duca oare la racirea relatiilor dintre cele doua state ?

silviana
2008-09-05 22:30:31

relatiile dintre rusia si georgia,relatiile dintre agresor si victima,e concluzia la ce a avut loc,

incepind cu premeditarea rusiei,inainte cu citeva luni de a invada georgia,transformarea partii georgiene a trupelor de pace mai mult in statut de semiprizoniera in osetia de sud,atacarea georgiei de pe teritoriul osetiei de sud in conditiile in care de acolo veneau informatii de agresiuni ale separatistilor si sustinatorilor lor rusi asupra cetatenilor georgieni,atac inceput cind georgia a incercat sa afle ce se intimpla,ridicind de la sol citeva avioane de observatie asupra carora rusia a tras si le'a doborit,continuind atacurile asupra georgienilor prin separatistii din osetia de sud,si prin parte noncombat a asa'ziselor trupe de pace,partea georgiana din osetia de sud s'a aparat,probabil prea eficient,ca masca de pace a partii ruse sa mai poata fi mentinuta,asa ca si'a aruncat masca pacii si a luptat alaturi de separatisti contra partii georgiene din trupele de pace,amplificind direct atacul in osetia de sud si indirect dinspre de osetia de sud,georgia a raspuns acestui dublu atac al rusiei separatiste dus pe teritoriul sau,dar rusia si'a dat arama pe fata/apremeditarea invaziei georgiei si a intrat cu trupele dinainte pregatite invadind georgia si inchipuindu'si ca apararea georgiei,o va putea da drept atac al partii georgiene,1 usor armat,din trupele de pace,asupra separatistilor si partii rusesti din trupele de pace,2 usor,mediu si x armat,ca motiv al suplimentarii trupelor de pace in osetia de sud,nu putea fiindca nici ea nu credea in,1 contra 2 cu necesitatea suplimentarii lui 2 cu potential de 3-4 ca forta armata pentru restabilirea pacii acolo,ci motiv direct al invaziei,imposibil de justificat in orice explicatie cu legatura/singura cheie a credibilitatii justificatoare a unui act armat de suplimentare de forte,la fortele de pace din osetia de sud ca o necesitate de intarire a lor pentru restabilirea pacii acolo,autoanulata dinainte oricum in cercul vicios in care s'a invirtit rusia omorind oameni in georgia,din care transpare declinul fortelor rationale ale rusiei de la moscova de fapt nu a celor de pace din osetia de sud.

Pinkie
2008-09-05 22:39:13

Si ce o sa faca ei cu ancheta ??? O s-o puna intr-un sertar.



Rusii si-au batut joc acolo la max si ce a facut UE ???
Nimic.

Zenn
2008-09-05 22:56:48

Ce sa se mai descopere!? Se stie. Ele au fost.

La 2008-09-05 20:59:05, Eufrosin a scris:

> Va duca oare la racirea relatiilor dintre cele doua state ?
>

Zenn
2008-09-05 22:58:05

"Ei" care?...

La 2008-09-05 22:39:13, Pinkie a scris:

>
>
> Rusii si-au batut joc acolo la max si ce a facut UE ???
> Nimic.
>

Zenn
2008-09-05 22:59:22

Ce pedepsire? Vine iarna. O sa vezi tu atunci...pedepsire"...O sa inghete ancheta instantaneu...

La 2008-09-05 21:36:47, ciucur a scris:

> aceste cuvinte "pedepsirea" Rusiei dau aura unei superioritati a sua
> si occidentului,iar presa foloseste aceste cuvinte ca sa ne induca
> noua faptul ca sua si occidentul sunt dumnezeu si ei impun sanctiuni
> dar nu ne spune nimeni in ce constau aceste sanctiuni,de ce e simplu
> fiindca ele nu exista
>

Evreu-rus
2008-09-05 23:02:34

Ancheta? Vorbiti serios?

Cu acesti cai troieni precum UK, Polonia si tarile baltice infiltrati in UE, ancheta va bate pasul pe loc. Dar, probabil ca nu. Tarile respective vor folosi orice oportunitate ivita sa-si umfle muschii in fata rusilor, si sa mascheze adevarul. Concluzia anchetei: Rusia a inceput razboiul. Am o presimtire care nu-mi da pace.

Zenn
2008-09-05 23:03:35

Russia gets its act together


Serge Halimi
(
http://mondediplo.com/2008/09/01russia
[Le Monde dioplonatique] September 2008


The question of responsibility for the hostilities in the Caucasus shouldn’t worry us too much. Less than a week after Georgia’s invasion, two well-known French commentators said it was old stuff. An influential neo-conservative from the United States backed that view: knowing who started things "is not very important", wrote Robert Kagan. "This war did not begin because of a miscalculation by Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili. It is a war that Moscow has been attempting to provoke for some time" (1).

One hypothesis deserves another. If, on the day of the opening ceremony of the Beijing Olympics, somebody else than Saakashvili, a graduate of New York ’s Columbia Law School, had started a war, would western capitals and their media have been able to contain righteous indignation at such a symbolic act?

History is easier to follow when goodies and baddies are decided in advance. The goodies, such as Georgia, have the right to defend their territorial integrity against the separatist struggles of their neighbours. The baddies, such as Serbia, must accept the self-determination of minority communities or expect to be bombed by Nato. The moral of this story is even more enlightening when, to defend his country’s borders, the charming pro-American Saakashvili repatriates some of the 2,000 soldiers he had sent to invade Iraq.

On 16 August President George Bush, speaking with gravity, rightly invoked the "Security Council resolutions of the United Nations" including the "sovereignty and independence and territorial integrity" of Georgia whose "borders should command the same respect as every other nation’s".

Only the US has the right to act unilaterally when it decides (or claims) that its security is at stake. In reality, events have followed a simpler plan: the US plays for Georgia against Russia; Russia plays for South Ossetia and Abkhazia to "punish" Georgia.

Two Pentagon position papers have indicated a desire to prevent the resurgence of Russian power ever since 1992, when it was in ruins. To ensure that US hegemony, which began with the first Gulf war and the disintegration of the Soviet bloc, became permanent, the Pentagon announced that it would be necessary to "convince likely rivals that they no longer need aspire to a greater role". If that didn’t work, the US would know how "to dissuade" them. And the main target was Russia, "the only power in the world which could destroy the US".

So can we chide Russian leaders for bristling against western help for the "colour revolutions" of Ukraine and Georgia, the inclusion of former members of the Warsaw Pact in Nato and the prospect of US missiles on Polish soil – all of which were elements of the old US strategy to weaken Russia, whatever its regime or its politics? "Russia has become a great power, that’s what’s so worrying," admitted Bernard Kouchner, France’s foreign minister (2).

Zbigniew Brzezinski, the architect of the US’ risky strategy in Afghanistan, recently explained the other part of the US grand design: "We have access through Georgia... to the oil and soon also the gas that lies not only in Azerbaijan but beyond it in the Caspian sea and beyond in Central Asia. So, in that sense, it’s a very major and strategic asset to us" (3). He can’t be accused of inconsistency: even in the days of Boris Yeltsin, when Russia was still floundering, he advocated driving it from the Caucasus and Central Asia so that energy flows to the West could be guaranteed (4).

Nowadays Russia is doing better, the US is doing less well and oil prices have taken off. Victim of its president’s provocative actions, Georgia has just been hit from three directions.

More about Serge Halimi. Translated by Robert Waterhouse

(1) Bernard-Henri Lévy and André Glucksmann, Libération, 14 August 2008, and Robert Kagan, Washington Post, 11 August 2008.

(2) Interview in the Journal de Dimanche, Paris, 17 August 2008.

(3) Bloomberg News, 12 August 2008.

(4) Zbigniew Brzezinski, The Grand Chessboard, Basic Books, New York, 1997.


http://www.todaysalternativenews.com/index.php?event=link,150&values[0]=&values[1]=5437

srelu
2008-09-05 23:04:14

Se intoarce roata

Cred ca Bush s-a cam pripit cu multumirile adresate europenilor pentru pozitia adoptata in criza georgiana. Cu atat mai mult cu cat, cu cateva exceptii, (Marea Britanie, Polonia si tarile baltice) interpretarea celorlalti n-a prea respectat partitura scrisa la Washington.

La ora asta Saakashvili are un motiv personal foarte puternic sa nu mai vrea in UE. Il paste curtea de la Haga pentru crime de razboi. Bombardarea populatiei civile pe timp de noapte este expres mentionata ca fiind crima de razboi. Si cum curtea de la Haga functioneaza pe principii diferite de cele ale justitiei romane, aceasta va lua cazul si va merge cu el inainte, indiferent ce declara si ce vor politicienii. Justitia de la Haga este independenta de clasa politica.

Zenn
2008-09-05 23:04:34

Si ce anume "inteligent" vezi tu in chestia asta?

La 2008-09-05 20:34:50, geek-a-contra a scris:

> ... pe care o aud de la declansarea razboiului astuia....
>

Zenn
2008-09-05 23:06:54

Israel of the Caucasus?


Arnaud de Borchgrave – Washington Times September 4, 2008


http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/04/israel-of-the-caucasus/

Zenn
2008-09-05 23:08:58

Allegations of war crimes begin to surface



As the last of the refugees returned to the war-scarred city of Tskhinval, the horrors they’d experienced while waiting for evacuation are gradually coming to light. A video filmed on a mobile phone, which appears to show Georgian troops firing on civilian buildings, has surfaced on the Internet.
The video was apparently recorded by a Georgian soldier as he manned a machine gun. His cry of 'Yoo hoo!' as he fired on the building reminded viewers of 'a child playing a video game' - but they were real bullets and real human targets.

An investigation into crimes allegedly committed by Georgian troops is currently underway and the exact number of casualties has yet to be established.

Accurate estimates of the death toll have been hampered by the chaos that took over the city during the fighting. Many rushed to bury their friends and relatives in their own gardens, school playgrounds and on hospital grounds. They felt it was too dangerous to venture onto the city streets.

Svetlana Nanieva and others like her didn't get the closure of a proper burial for her son.

"My house was burnt down and my son died in the fire. Nothing was left of him. I have nothing left," she cried.

Her neighbor, also named Svetlana, says she was lucky to lose only her house and not her family. She managed to run to a bomb shelter just minutes before a Georgian artillery bombardment leveled her street.

"Two pregnant women were killed on our street. One was killed by a bomb and the other was beheaded and left on the street," said Svetlana Gogloeva.

The city's Jewish quarter took the brunt of the bombing. No wonder then that Russia's General Military Prosecutor chose this emotionally charged site to share the results of his investigation thus far with the media.

"There was no suggestion that they wanted to destroy military equipment. They shot at houses and civilians basically," said prosecutor Sergey Fridinsky.

He said more than a thousand homes have been completely destroyed and many more damaged.

http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/29900

Dan Petre
2008-09-05 23:58:05

Re: Si ce anume "inteligent" vezi tu in chestia asta?

La 2008-09-05 23:04:34, Zenn a scris:

> La 2008-09-05 20:34:50, geek-a-contra a scris:
>
> > ... pe care o aud de la declansarea razboiului astuia....
> >
>
>
aflarea adevarului.
ai ceva impotriva?
din cite stiu rusia nu a permis jurnalistilor accesul liber in osetia de sud, e cazul sa vedem ce au facut rusii si georgienii acolo. asta stind la distanta de rusi si georgieni.

ionion
2008-09-06 07:12:44

Steinmeier - amic bun al lui Schroeder- cere ce ?


de atacurile zilnice din Osetia de Sud catre Georgia acest Steinmeier stie ?
sau in timpul vacantelor de lux a la 7* petrecute in Rusia sub aripa lucratorului si colaboratorului rus Schroeder , Steinmeier nu a avut timp sa studieze situatia ?
De ce ? Prea mult Schnaps ?
De infiltrarile uriase de armament rusesc spre Osetia de Sud d-l Steinmeier are cunostinte ? si nici macar materiale doveditoare ? Curios ! Atuinci nu a baut Schnaps dar a facut o cura de gaz lariant facut de Schroeder gratuit.
Trebuiesc verificate CAUZELE de ce Georgia ca stat suveran a fost obligata sa-si apere independenta cu arma in mana .

ionion
2008-09-06 07:13:43

Rusia cu mana prelungita prin Germania cere satisfactie- altfel se apropie iarna

si in Germania va fi frig....

valentin vasilescu
2008-09-06 08:34:48

curat murdar

,,David Miliband, a declarat ca Marea Britanie a solicitat intotdeauna sa fie verificate afirmatiile privind existenta unor cazuri de incalcare a drepturilor omului. "Am spus intotdeauna ca vom da curs (acestor investigatii) fara teama si fara a favoriza pe nimeni", a explicat Miliband,,

Zau ma papagale ? Pe cuvintul tau de pionier ? Da` pe astea de ce nu le-ati verificat : http://www.myspace.com/val2002

zerrah2007
2008-09-06 09:15:47

De ce sa mai piarda timpul cu ancheta ?

Sa-i intrebe direct pe Melescanu si cei din Directia Informatii a Armatei Romane, sa ia probele de la ei, daca tot au fost ai nostri martori si au inregistat evenimentele prin mijloace "umane, electronice si altele" ..... dupa spusele ministrului apararii.

avenirv
2008-09-06 11:39:06

silviana, uite ce spun astia.

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1358

stii cine sint ? numai de rusofilie nu pot fi acuzati. sint prea tari ca sa depinda de cineva.

"Georgian tanks and infantry, aided by Israeli military advisers, captured the capital of breakaway South Ossetia, Tskhinvali, early Friday, Aug. 8, bringing the Georgian-Russian conflict over the province to a military climax.
Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin threatened a "military response."

CAP-istul
2008-09-06 12:43:18

N-AR FI MAI BINE ......

sa citeasca direct raportul privind conflictul din TRANSNISTRIA ? Reteta a fost identica, provoccari repetate ale separatistilor, trupe ruse "de pace" care se fac ca nu vad, solutia gresita de a-i ataca pe separatisti, interventia rusilor care "erau intamplator prin zona" cu cateva sute de blindate si 20000 militari.
Doamne ce coincidenta: ancheta e ceruta de partenerii ptr. North Stream (Germania) si ptr. South Stream (Italia), la care se adauga Austria (punct nodal al retelelor de petrol si gaze rusesti). Mai, mai, mai. Desigur asta nu-l scuteste pe SAAKA - ROBIN HOOD de vina de a "pune botul" la provocarile rusilor.

cercetas
2008-09-06 13:20:05

Re: Rusia cu mana prelungita prin Germania cere satisfactie- altfel se apropie iarna

La 2008-09-06 07:13:43, ionion a scris:

> si in Germania va fi frig....
>
da, ar cam trebui facuta, dar o acheta d-asta nu e lucru usor, deci mai intai trebuie facuta o ancheta despre ce altfel de anchete nu s-au facut,

FB
2008-09-06 20:13:50

Deci nu e clar

cum a declarat Moscova cum ca Georgia ar fi inceput.Si ar fi facut 2000 de victime .Daca era asa ,ce mai vuiau ziarele moscovite .Cu imagini si reportaje.
Nu zic ca Shakasvili a avut 100 % dreptate ,dar in cazul lui si al georgienilor e ca si atunci cand vine unu' iti sparge usa, iti intra in casa ,dupa care daca tu vrei sa-l dai afara si pui si tu mana pe un picior de scaun ,cazi tu de victima.
Valea acasa la voi ma rusnacilor ,Osetia de Sud apartine Georgiei !
Cum si Moldova apartine Romaniei ! Panimai ? Haraso!


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