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2008-08-30
Caius-Roland din Germania (...@gmx.de, IP: 84.171.241...)
2008-08-29 23:44
Vezi??

Vezi d-le Solomonovici, de �ndata ce scrii ceva "pozitiv"despre antonescu,apare o cohorta de antisemiti si deja �si exprima dorinta si speranta ca aceasta comisie pentru studierea Holocaustului din Rom�nia sa fie desfiintata!�n ceea ce priveste subiectul discutiei: antisemitismul est-european preconiza mai degraba o alungare a evreilor din tarile lor, asta e adevarat, dar atunci c�nd nu se putea astfel,"maresalul" criminal nu avea nimic �mpotriva ca acei evrei sa fie ucisi!Nici nu ma refer la masacrul de la Odessa, ci la cel de la Golta de exemplu, unde rom�nii au �ncercat mai �nt�i sa-i alunge pe evrei �n teritoriile de sub administratie germana, iar c�nd acestia i-au trimis �napoi, rom�nii(trupele de jandarmi rom�ni) i-au �mpuscat fara mila si �ndurare(vreo 70.000 de morti au fost!!!)"maresalul" criminal a fost informat prin telegrame despre aceste ucideri monstruoase,telegrame care foloseau vocabularul nazist("Golta a fost curatat de evrei"),iar el,"maresalul" spun�nd ca el preia raspunderea pentru cele �nt�mplate!Eu cred ca "raportul final pentru studierea Holocaustului �n Rom�nia" e cel mai bun document �n aceasta privinta pe care istoriografia si cercetarea istorica rom�neasca �n prezent �l are la dispozitie!

Ereticul din Bucuresti (...@k.ro, IP: 86.107.240...)
2008-08-29 23:51
Re: Vezi??

In primul rand dorim o comisie obiectiva si romanizata, nu una impanata de alogeni care cu mult inainte de orice studiu au afirmat (antepronuntare) ca romanii au ucis.
Al doilea rand - de unde ati scos povestea de la Golta, pe ce surse va bazati cand descrieti modul in care s-au petrecut lucrurile si mai ales de unde ati scos numarul de victime?

Debran (...@web.de, IP: 90.136.6...)
2008-08-30 00:25
Ereticul

La 2008-08-29 23:51:50, Ereticul a scris:

> In primul rand dorim o comisie obiectiva si romanizata, nu una
> impanata de alogeni care cu mult inainte de orice studiu au afirmat
> (antepronuntare) ca romanii au ucis.
> Al doilea rand - de unde ati scos povestea de la Golta, pe ce surse va
> bazati cand descrieti modul in care s-au petrecut lucrurile si mai
> ales de unde ati scos numarul de victime?
>




Poti afla cateva informatii - citite cu deosebita atentie- din textul de mai jos:

Another large-scale massacre in which the Romanian military authorities of Transnistria were implicated took place in Golta District, Ukrainian policemen and Romanian gendarmes carried out mass executions. Most of the victims were Ukrainian Jews, but thousands of Bessarabian Jews were also killed.

Jewish corpses piled behind logs after a pogrom

The massacre in Golta began on the morning of December 21, 1941. The first lot to be massacred consisted of the sick and the disabled, they were herded into horse stables, the Romanian gendarmes scattered hay on the roof and in front of the entrances, then poured gasoline. The order rang out to light the fires, and in several minutes the stables and the four to five thousand lives inside, went up in smoke.

Despite the pogrom at Iasi, the deportations from Bessarabia and Bukovina, the repeated massacres in those provinces, and the Transnistria genocide, a large segment of the Jewish population of Romania was still alive in 1942. The Jewish population of Moldavia, Walachia, and Transylvania were still alive. This did not go by unnoticed by Nazi Germany, which continued to pressure Romania and its other allies to “solve the Jewish question."

On August 17, 1942, Marshal Antonescu had given consent for the final deportations and had agreed that transports would begin from the districts of Arad, Timisoara, and Turda. Romanian officials were invited to a special conference in Berlin to discuss the details with the Foreign Office and the RSHA, they failed to attend, but general orders were issued nonetheless.


http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/nazioccupation/romanianjews.html

dorumare din Bucuresti (...@yahoo.com, IP: 85.204.160...)
2008-08-30 00:40
Re: Vezi??

alte cifre nu mai stiti? si la Timisoara in '89...

dorumare din Bucuresti (...@yahoo.com, IP: 85.204.160...)
2008-08-30 00:48
Re: Ereticul

e adevarat ca au fost luati evrei din judetele mentionate (de granita) insa au fost dusi si imprastiati 'la gazde' prin judetele de interior la diverse munci, agricole mai ales. Pe linga Hateg au fost adusi citeva sute de evrei si singurul care nu a vrut sa gazduiasca evrei desi avea multe proprietati in zona a fost avocatul Petru Groza...

roy din secrapadeziua.blogspot.com (...@hotmail.com, IP: 217.132.124...)
2008-08-30 00:53
Re: Vezi??

Bogdanovka was an concentration camp for Jews that was established by the Romanian authorities during World War II as part of the Holocaust.

The camp was on the Bug river, in the Golta district of Transnistria and held 54,000 people by the end of 1941. In December of 1941, after a typhus outbreak, a decision was made to kill everyone at the camp. Romanian and Ukrainian police, civilians, and soldiers began a massacre on December 21. Jews were forced to dig pits in the frozen ground with their bare hands, and pack them with corpses as their fellow inmates were shot or burned alive in barns. Over the course of four days, 40,000 Jews were killed.

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Bogdanovka
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


La 2008-08-29 23:51:50, Ereticul a scris:

> In primul rand dorim o comisie obiectiva si romanizata, nu una
> impanata de alogeni care cu mult inainte de orice studiu au afirmat
> (antepronuntare) ca romanii au ucis.
> Al doilea rand - de unde ati scos povestea de la Golta, pe ce surse va
> bazati cand descrieti modul in care s-au petrecut lucrurile si mai
> ales de unde ati scos numarul de victime?
>

Debran (...@web.de, IP: 90.136.6...)
2008-08-30 01:04
Re: Vezi??

La 2008-08-30 00:53:20, roy a scris:

> Bogdanovka was an concentration camp for Jews that was established by
> the Romanian authorities during World War II as part of the Holocaust.
>
>
> The camp was on the Bug river, in the Golta district of Transnistria
> and held 54,000 people by the end of 1941. In December of 1941, after
> a typhus outbreak, a decision was made to kill everyone at the camp.
> Romanian and Ukrainian police, civilians, and soldiers began a
> massacre on December 21. Jews were forced to dig pits in the frozen
> ground with their bare hands, and pack them with corpses as their
> fellow inmates were shot or burned alive in barns. Over the course of
> four days, 40,000 Jews were killed.
>
> http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Bogdanovka
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Bogdanovka was an extermination camp that the Romanian occupation authorities established in the village of that name on the Bug River, in the Golta district of Transnistria. In the middle of December 1941, when several cases of typhus were discovered in the camp, a joint decision was made by Fleisher the German advisor to the Romanian administration of the district and Romanian District Commissioner: Col. Modest Isopesco , to murder all the inmates. Participating in this operation were Romanian soldiers and gendarmes, Ukrainian police and civilians from Golta, and local ethnic Germans (Volksdeutsche) under the commander of the Ukrainian regular police, Kazachievici. The Aktion began on December 21. Some 5,000 ill and disabled prisoners were gathered in barns that were set ablaze. The remaining Jews were arranged in rows of 300-400, led to a forest near the camp, and shot in the neck. The four-day operation resulted in the murder of 30,000 Jews. The remaining Jews, waiting their turn in bitter cold, dug pits with their bare hands and packed them with frozen corpses. Thousands of Jews froze to death. The murders were halted on Christmas Eve and resumed on December 28. By the evening of December 31, the last 11,000 Jews were also dead.


http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/chronology/1939-1941/1941/chronology_1941_54.html
>

Paul din Ohio din SUA (...@hotmail.com, IP: 24.29.10...)
2008-08-30 03:32
Re: Vezi?? Debran

Sigur ca Antonescu si acolitii lui au comis crime atroce impotriva evreilor basarabeni si bucovineni. Dar ar fi bine sa stim ce documente a folosit dl. Jan Ancel in stabilirea magnitudinii acestor crime. La 2008-08-30 01:04:37, Debran a scris:

> La 2008-08-30 00:53:20, roy a scris:
>
> > Bogdanovka was an concentration camp for Jews that was established by
> > the Romanian authorities during World War II as part of the Holocaust.
> >
> >
> > The camp was on the Bug river, in the Golta district of Transnistria
> > and held 54,000 people by the end of 1941. In December of 1941, after
> > a typhus outbreak, a decision was made to kill everyone at the camp.
> > Romanian and Ukrainian police, civilians, and soldiers began a
> > massacre on December 21. Jews were forced to dig pits in the frozen
> > ground with their bare hands, and pack them with corpses as their
> > fellow inmates were shot or burned alive in barns. Over the course of
> > four days, 40,000 Jews were killed.
> >
> > http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Bogdanovka
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>
> Bogdanovka was an extermination camp that the Romanian occupation
> authorities established in the village of that name on the Bug River,
> in the Golta district of Transnistria. In the middle of December 1941,
> when several cases of typhus were discovered in the camp, a joint
> decision was made by Fleisher the German advisor to the Romanian
> administration of the district and Romanian District Commissioner:
> Col. Modest Isopesco , to murder all the inmates. Participating in
> this operation were Romanian soldiers and gendarmes, Ukrainian police
> and civilians from Golta, and local ethnic Germans (Volksdeutsche)
> under the commander of the Ukrainian regular police, Kazachievici. The
> Aktion began on December 21. Some 5,000 ill and disabled prisoners
> were gathered in barns that were set ablaze. The remaining Jews were
> arranged in rows of 300-400, led to a forest near the camp, and shot
> in the neck. The four-day operation resulted in the murder of 30,000
> Jews. The remaining Jews, waiting their turn in bitter cold, dug pits
> with their bare hands and packed them with frozen corpses. Thousands
> of Jews froze to death. The murders were halted on Christmas Eve and
> resumed on December 28. By the evening of December 31, the last 11,000
> Jews were also dead.
>
>
> http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/chronology/1939-1941/1941/chronology_1941_54.html
> >
>
>

roy din secrapadeziua.blogspot.com (...@hotmail.com, IP: 217.132.124...)
2008-08-30 06:59
Re: Paul

Majoritatea documentelor folosite provin din arhivele Statului Roman care au fost deschise cercetatorilor dupa 1989.

Documentele suntt stenograme ale sedintzelor guvernului, ordine militare si rapoarte de pe teren.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

La 2008-08-30 03:32:38, Paul din Ohio a scris:

> Sigur ca Antonescu si acolitii lui au comis crime atroce impotriva
> evreilor basarabeni si bucovineni. Dar ar fi bine sa stim ce documente
> a folosit dl. Jan Ancel in stabilirea magnitudinii acestor crime. La
> 2008-08-30 01:04:37, Debran a scris:
>
> > La 2008-08-30 00:53:20, roy a scris:
> >
> > > Bogdanovka was an concentration camp for Jews that was established by
> > > the Romanian authorities during World War II as part of the Holocaust.
> > >
> > >
> > > The camp was on the Bug river, in the Golta district of Transnistria
> > > and held 54,000 people by the end of 1941. In December of 1941, after
> > > a typhus outbreak, a decision was made to kill everyone at the camp.
> > > Romanian and Ukrainian police, civilians, and soldiers began a
> > > massacre on December 21. Jews were forced to dig pits in the frozen
> > > ground with their bare hands, and pack them with corpses as their
> > > fellow inmates were shot or burned alive in barns. Over the course of
> > > four days, 40,000 Jews were killed.
> > >
> > > http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Bogdanovka
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Bogdanovka was an extermination camp that the Romanian occupation
> > authorities established in the village of that name on the Bug River,
> > in the Golta district of Transnistria. In the middle of December 1941,
> > when several cases of typhus were discovered in the camp, a joint
> > decision was made by Fleisher the German advisor to the Romanian
> > administration of the district and Romanian District Commissioner:
> > Col. Modest Isopesco , to murder all the inmates. Participating in
> > this operation were Romanian soldiers and gendarmes, Ukrainian police
> > and civilians from Golta, and local ethnic Germans (Volksdeutsche)
> > under the commander of the Ukrainian regular police, Kazachievici. The
> > Aktion began on December 21. Some 5,000 ill and disabled prisoners
> > were gathered in barns that were set ablaze. The remaining Jews were
> > arranged in rows of 300-400, led to a forest near the camp, and shot
> > in the neck. The four-day operation resulted in the murder of 30,000
> > Jews. The remaining Jews, waiting their turn in bitter cold, dug pits
> > with their bare hands and packed them with frozen corpses. Thousands
> > of Jews froze to death. The murders were halted on Christmas Eve and
> > resumed on December 28. By the evening of December 31, the last 11,000
> > Jews were also dead.
> >
> >
> > http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/chronology/1939-1941/1941/chronology_1941_54.html
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Ereticul din Bucuresti (...@k.ro, IP: 86.107.240...)
2008-08-30 09:57
Re: Paul

"Majoritatea documentelor folosite provin din arhivele Statului Roman care au fost deschise cercetatorilor dupa 1989"

Nu tuturor cercetatorilor si nici publicului larg, desi exista fondurile necesare si tehnica aferenta scanarii tuturor documentelor si publicarea lor pe internet. Ramane intrebarea - cat de cinstiti, sinceri si obiectivi au fost acei cercetatori care au avut acces la ele, si de cate din documentele favorabile romanilor s-a tinut cont?
Sa nu uitam ca in comisie au fost numiti numai evrei sau cercetatori romani subordonati lor (ceilalti, care ar fi putut afirma, sustine si demonstra o alta versiune au fost intimidati de legile impotriva negationismului si tinuti cat mai departe de comisie si documente), dupa scandalul provocat de israelieni pe tema declaratiilor lui Iliescu, de genul 'au mai murit si altii, nu doar evrei', iar presedintele comisiei ne-a pus in carca si evreii din regiuni care nu se aflau sub administratie romaneasca, pe principiul "amanunt nesemnificativ".

Paul din Ohio din SUA (...@hotmail.com, IP: 24.29.10...)
2008-08-30 19:31
Re: Paul. roy

Imi aduc aminte ca am citit acum 4-5 ani un articol al lui Jean Ancel (cred ca in Revista 22) in care raspundea unor critici despre documentele folosite. El isi exprima totala neincredere in documentele romanesti si spunea clar ca a folosit in mare masura documente sovietice de dupa razboi.La 2008-08-30 06:59:36, roy a scris:

> Majoritatea documentelor folosite provin din arhivele Statului Roman
> care au fost deschise cercetatorilor dupa 1989.
>
> Documentele suntt stenograme ale sedintzelor guvernului, ordine
> militare si rapoarte de pe teren.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> La 2008-08-30 03:32:38, Paul din Ohio a scris:
>
> > Sigur ca Antonescu si acolitii lui au comis crime atroce impotriva
> > evreilor basarabeni si bucovineni. Dar ar fi bine sa stim ce documente
> > a folosit dl. Jan Ancel in stabilirea magnitudinii acestor crime. La
> > 2008-08-30 01:04:37, Debran a scris:
> >
> > > La 2008-08-30 00:53:20, roy a scris:
> > >
> > > > Bogdanovka was an concentration camp for Jews that was established by
> > > > the Romanian authorities during World War II as part of the Holocaust.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The camp was on the Bug river, in the Golta district of Transnistria
> > > > and held 54,000 people by the end of 1941. In December of 1941, after
> > > > a typhus outbreak, a decision was made to kill everyone at the camp.
> > > > Romanian and Ukrainian police, civilians, and soldiers began a
> > > > massacre on December 21. Jews were forced to dig pits in the frozen
> > > > ground with their bare hands, and pack them with corpses as their
> > > > fellow inmates were shot or burned alive in barns. Over the course of
> > > > four days, 40,000 Jews were killed.
> > > >
> > > > http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Bogdanovka
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Bogdanovka was an extermination camp that the Romanian occupation
> > > authorities established in the village of that name on the Bug River,
> > > in the Golta district of Transnistria. In the middle of December 1941,
> > > when several cases of typhus were discovered in the camp, a joint
> > > decision was made by Fleisher the German advisor to the Romanian
> > > administration of the district and Romanian District Commissioner:
> > > Col. Modest Isopesco , to murder all the inmates. Participating in
> > > this operation were Romanian soldiers and gendarmes, Ukrainian police
> > > and civilians from Golta, and local ethnic Germans (Volksdeutsche)
> > > under the commander of the Ukrainian regular police, Kazachievici. The
> > > Aktion began on December 21. Some 5,000 ill and disabled prisoners
> > > were gathered in barns that were set ablaze. The remaining Jews were
> > > arranged in rows of 300-400, led to a forest near the camp, and shot
> > > in the neck. The four-day operation resulted in the murder of 30,000
> > > Jews. The remaining Jews, waiting their turn in bitter cold, dug pits
> > > with their bare hands and packed them with frozen corpses. Thousands
> > > of Jews froze to death. The murders were halted on Christmas Eve and
> > > resumed on December 28. By the evening of December 31, the last 11,000
> > > Jews were also dead.
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/chronology/1939-1941/1941/chronology_1941_54.html
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

spaiu' (...@k.ro, IP: 93.122.240...)
2008-08-30 20:12
Re: Iar mintiti poporul...cu forumizorul!

http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatul_de_la_Viena

Printre altele, acolo e scris ca, inca din iunie 1940, Romania cedase Basarabia si Bucovina de nord. Cu alte cuvinte, in 1941, Transnistria era sub administrare sovietica. Ce legatura are Antonescu cu asta? Si, in consecinta, ce legatura au "istoricii" mentionati cu adevarul? Niste mincinosi ordinari de cea mai joasa speta...


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